On this podcast episode, Jennifer Fitzgerald explains why expertise has been important to the corporate’s success, the way it has operationalized its values—and the important thing choice factors which have helped the start-up scale to incorporate greater than 200 folks.
Highlights
Expertise has been important to the success of Policygenius, and continues to be one of many firm’s priorities. Jennifer Fitzgerald spends most of her time centered on recruiting and hiring—ensuring the corporate has the appropriate folks in the appropriate roles, and that they’re engaged, motivated and aligned with enterprise objectives.
The corporate has developed clear values: the issues it judges enterprise selections in opposition to, when there aren’t clear black-and-white solutions. It has additionally operationalized these values—which contributes to its tradition.
Jennifer attributes the corporate’s success to timing, focus and content material, in addition to their selections to construct software program and operations capabilities in-house.
Give attention to insurtech
In season two of the Accenture Insurance coverage Influencers podcast, we’ve gone behind the scenes in insurtech—and extracted classes for what incumbents can study, and what the business must do to be aggressive, agile and related.
Easy methods to scale tradition, with Jennifer Fitzgerald
On this episode, we proceed our dialog with Jennifer Fitzgerald, CEO at Policygenius. Jennifer explains how Policygenius has scaled from a staff of 5 to greater than 200 workers as we speak. What selections have been integral to their success—and what does she know as we speak that she needs she knew then?
The next transcript has been edited for size and readability.
Hello, I’m Eagranie Yuh, and that is the Accenture Insurance coverage Influencers podcast. On this episode, I’m talking with Jennifer Fitzgerald.
Thanks for becoming a member of me as we speak, Jennifer. I needed to speak about your background. You’ve been within the Peace Corps, went to Columbia Regulation College and have been a guide at McKinsey, the place you met your co-founder Francois de Lame. How do all these experiences come to play in what you’re doing as we speak with Policygenius?
I imply, I feel everyone’s acquired their very own path to ultimately beginning an organization. It was by no means one thing that was on the bucket listing for me. I fell into the chance and had numerous conviction about this concept, in order that was my path.
I feel what it affords me, because the CEO and co-founder, is a wealthy set of life experiences to attract from, which permits me to attach the dots fairly successfully. At this scale, because the CEO, we’ve constructed a very good management staff. We’ve acquired a number of hundred individuals who work right here now. I’m not totally, totally within the weeds and having to do all the work anymore. My job is to have the ability to join the dots and to carry each the insights and the knowledge to my staff. It makes me sound like I’m very outdated. I’m not [laughter]. However the diversified life expertise has been useful for that.
It additionally permits me to attach with a broader set of our prospects. It permits me to consider how we body ourselves to potential workers and it’s been useful as we’ve grown this firm.
I really feel like that’s a difficult factor for an entrepreneur to do, particularly when you have constructed an organization up from the bottom, from 5 folks. In some circumstances, folks have a management staff after which don’t totally empower them. At what level did you notice, “Hey, I have to be stepping again. I want to put in a management staff”? And what was that like so that you can hand over this firm and say, “Hey, guys, right here you go. I’m going to do these different issues now?”
I didn’t actually need to persuade myself to do it as a result of in some unspecified time in the future, had I continued doing every part, I in all probability would have simply dropped useless from exhaustion.
It was extra only one, a matter of practicality. After which two, when you get it proper, your job as a CEO is to rent people who find themselves higher than you of their respective capabilities, proper? Who know know-how, who know advertising, who know finance or org constructing.
What I discovered is that—and that is what I inform workers and the management staff as nicely—each six months, particularly in a growth-stage firm, your job is altering. So I've to take heed to the truth that my job evolves each few months and to be sure that I've the leverage, we've got the staff in place to assist my new job and this new stage of firm.
Handing over issues was not the exhausting half for me. What’s the exhausting half—and it’s universally the exhausting half—is getting the appropriate folks in place. That’s extremely exhausting to do.
So how do you discover the appropriate folks?
You’ve acquired to focus, focus, deal with it. I spend most of my time every week in hiring. I’m both interviewing or I’m assembly potential candidates or sourcing people or working with the management staff and the folks staff to consider our hiring plans.
So more often than not I’m really simply fascinated with recruiting and hiring. It’s one of the crucial essential issues that I can do. We’ve discovered so much over time about learn how to interview successfully, how to consider the candidate expertise. It’s been numerous trial and error and there’s no shortcut.
I meet with a bunch of CEOs of similar-stage corporations as soon as a month and mainly each subject that we speak about is a few variation of, “I have to get my management staff aligned,” or, “I’ve acquired gaps on my management staff,” or, “I don’t know if I've the appropriate management staff.”
So on the finish of the day, assuming that your thought’s validated and your technique’s working—which is an enormous if, and numerous corporations die at that stage—when you get past that, it actually simply comes right down to folks. And ensuring that you simply’ve acquired the appropriate folks in the appropriate roles, they usually’re engaged they usually’re motivated they usually’re all operating in the identical path.
If you end up hiring somebody who’s higher than you—and that suggests that they know greater than you—how do you objectively consider them? How are you aware what you’re on the lookout for when you don’t know as a lot as them?
You do a pair issues.
One is—at the very least within the hiring part—you’ve acquired people who can converse to that. If I've to rent, for instance, the pinnacle of know-how, I'll contain people exterior of the corporate who may vet them. Again channeling is a vital supply of that. So not simply the references that a candidate offers you, however I'm going deep and I dig and I discuss to individuals who reported to you, labored alongside you, who have been your boss. I’ll go a number of corporations again. You develop a whole image of who that particular person is and the way they’ve operated in numerous environments.
We've a reasonably sturdy hiring course of the place there are individuals who will doubtlessly report back to the particular person, who shall be friends to the particular person. After which, in fact, the one that will handle that particular person are all a part of it.
We attempt to do a reasonably sturdy 360-degree view of that particular person as a candidate. I don’t have to know learn how to be a software program engineer to be sure that I'm hiring an excellent chief of software program engineers, for instance, if I’ve structured the recruiting and interview course of accurately.
Proper. It sounds to me like there’s a reasonably deliberate focus, not simply on the skillset that you simply’re on the lookout for but additionally on the tradition and the cultural match of the particular person. Are you able to inform me in regards to the tradition at Policygenius and what you’ve tried to construct?
Yeah. The tradition has been essential to us. One in every of our earliest workers was a really seasoned head of individuals. And this units us aside from different corporations. Most corporations don’t rent seasoned head of individuals till they’re 100-plus workers. She was our 23rd worker, I imagine. In order that simply alerts how essential we thought it was to deal with tradition.
All people says the job of a startup is to construct the product, proper, so construct the machine. And in some unspecified time in the future, it's important to construct the machine that builds the machine, which is across the folks, the processes, the methods in place. We needed to take a proactive method to that early on.
We’ve thought so much about tradition. And tradition mainly boils right down to your values, that are the behaviors and the traits that you simply need to encourage workers, that you simply need to reward. They're the issues by which you decide enterprise selections that don’t have a transparent black-and-white reply.
So we thought so much about values and we thought so much about learn how to operationalize values, which matches an extended half to creating that tradition.
I really feel like values may be so useful after they’re performed nicely. And generally after they’re not, they develop into these hole issues that individuals throw round like, “Oh, we're open and clear and bold.” But when they’re not backed up by methods or by management or different elements, they ring hole. Are you able to speak about the way you set the values, and the way you again these up and truly carry them to life?
Positive. We’ve acquired our values. And any firm can write their values on a chunk of paper, to your level. And when you solely do this, it’s fairly hole and inauthentic. We’ve additionally thought very intentionally about learn how to operationalize these to be sure that they’re a part of the DNA they usually’re a part of how we do enterprise day-after-day.
One in every of our values, for instance, is not any chuckleheads allowed. Lots of corporations have a no jerks rule. I just like the time period chucklehead. It’s inclusive of jerks. So how can we operationalize that?
One massive piece is we’ve acquired the values alignment interview. We usually have a few folks in each single interview course of who check for values alignment. We ask particular questions round that and we've got turned down candidates who're in any other case very sturdy, nice background, nice resume, nice abilities however weren’t aligned with our values, or there was a priority they might be a chucklehead and be disruptive to the staff. In order that’s a technique we operationalize that worth.
One in every of our different values is you must know learn how to work the issue. So being an environment friendly, efficient problem-solver is a conduct and a price that we prioritize on the firm.
A technique we operationalize that's I, for instance, lead all the firm via problem-solving coaching each quarter. My co-founder and I developed a condensed model of the problem-solving coaching that you simply get as a brand-new McKinsey guide, right into a coaching module that we run the corporate via. And anyone can join it and you'll learn up for it. In order that’s a technique we’ve operationalized that worth and we’ve acquired a complete bunch of various examples to that. We completely agree with you that you simply acquired to place your cash the place your mouth is in relation to values, or else it’s simply hole phrases on a chunk of paper.
As you’ve scaled this firm, as you’ve operationalized these values, what has been most stunning to you?
What’s been most stunning is, I feel, the corporate takes on a lifetime of its personal past me. We've about 215 workers now. We are able to’t all slot in the identical room. It was once me and a handful of us working in a tiny room and everyone knew one another and everyone knew what was happening and there was that atmosphere.
And now, throughout the 200 workers, there’s hundreds and hundreds of particular person one-on-one relationships and it’s been fascinating and stunning for me to see the corporate tackle a lifetime of its personal. That there are people who find themselves mates exterior of work, and there are inside jokes that I’m not part of as a result of the corporate is at a scale that I can’t know each inside joke now.
I feel that’s been probably the most stunning factor is that issues tackle a lifetime of their very own and issues begin to transfer on their very own with out me having to sort of push that boulder, which is strictly what it was within the early days. In order that’s been each stunning and tremendous rewarding to see.
And the flip aspect of it, what have been a few of your greatest challenges in scaling, and the way have you ever addressed that problem?
Yeah. I feel our greatest problem over time is, once more, going again to expertise. That’s it. I feel we’ve been very centered on technique and constructing the appropriate product. And certain, there have been a pair hiccups alongside the way in which however by and huge our technique, our imaginative and prescient, has not modified since day zero.
The exhausting issues have been round folks and the way do you purchase actually nice expertise when, particularly within the early days, you don’t have a model title. I feel you are taking as a right once you’re at massive corporations, simply how a lot of the heavy lifting the title on your enterprise card does and there’s a machine that magically produces candidates so that you can interview.
And when you find yourself constructing an organization from scratch, that's completely not the case. You’ve acquired to persuade an worker or a potential worker who has a number of—if not dozens of choices—on the market why your organization (that they’ve by no means heard of earlier than) is the place that they need to make investments at this subsequent stage of their profession. It’s gotten simpler now that we’ve gotten larger and we’re a extra acknowledged model within the tech scene in New York Metropolis but it surely’s nonetheless exhausting as a result of I’m competing with Google and Fb and Amazon, and also you title the corporate, for expertise. In order that’s the evergreen exhausting factor about doing a enterprise.
What are the distinctive issues? Why would anyone select to work at Policygenius versus Amazon or Google?
Affect. The massive factor is, once you’re at these corporations, you might be one in all tens of hundreds, if not lots of of hundreds of workers. And at these corporations, you possibly can work actually exhausting, however are you really going to really feel just like the impression that you simply’re making is distinctive? I feel most individuals, in some unspecified time in the future, really feel like, “I couldn't present up tomorrow, and no person would discover.”
Whereas if you're at an organization at our stage, it is vitally a lot felt, proper? There’s not numerous fats within the system. We run very lean. You’ve acquired the power to decide as we speak and implement it the identical day versus, when you’re at a Google or an Amazon or a Fb, there’s going to be ranges and ranges and layers and layers of paperwork and decision-making and stakeholder administration that it's important to undergo. It’s a special factor, proper? It’s additionally in all probability a better way of life there versus right here. Right here there’s going to be extra ambiguity; issues change much more shortly.
It actually relies on what stage you’re at and what you’re on the lookout for out of your profession. However when you don’t need to be the cog within the wheel at an enormous establishment, this can be a fairly compelling worth prop for that particular person.
And what impression do you see Policygenius having on the business or the world?
We're actually remodeling and altering the sport in insurance coverage. I feel after we launched a number of years in the past, insurtech wasn’t a factor. There wasn’t an insurtech convention. We have been one of many pioneers in insurtech, and we’ve created this wave of quick followers who're centered on life insurance coverage, and insurtech extra broadly. I feel we’ve opened up the tech alternative in insurance coverage. And we're serving to tens of millions of shoppers yearly, which is massively essential for me because the CEO and may be very motivating for the workers right here at Policygenius.
I’m curious as a result of you've gotten develop into this business chief in insurtech, notably within the life insurance coverage area. What choice factors do you suppose have been most influential to getting you to that time?
There are a number of:
Timing. I suppose you possibly can all the time discuss your self away from the cliff of doing one thing high-risk. And so simply doing it—and doing it after we did it—was a very nice choice as a result of a lot of enterprise is round timing. You possibly can have a terrific thought, but when the timing’s off out there, then it doesn’t matter. I feel our timing was nice to begin the enterprise after we did.
Focus. I feel a number of the early-on selections strategically made about what to focus versus what to not deal with –– so for instance, to not go down the well-trodded path of auto insurance coverage. As a substitute, to focus on life insurance coverage when that began to take off.
Constructing in-house capabilities. To construct all the software program and operations in-house was an enormous strategic choice that not numerous different corporations have made, has created an enormous aggressive benefit for us now and permits us to maneuver quicker, construct extra shortly.
Content material. Early on, we noticed a chance to deal with creating high-quality content material that may not solely present nice recommendation and choice assist for customers, but additionally permit us to open up Google natural search as a channel for us. It’s an extended recreation, one thing that takes years to spend money on earlier than you begin seeing outcomes. However we did it, and we stored at it, and now it’s an enormous moat between us and our rivals.
Earlier than Policygenius, neither you nor your co-founder, Francois de Lame, had began an organization earlier than. What are you aware now that you simply want you knew then?
All the things [laughter]. In all probability actually every part, which is why you see so many second- and third-time founders. We have been simply remarking about this the opposite day like, “Oh God, we’ve discovered a lot and there are such a lot of issues that if we have been to do a second firm in some unspecified time in the future within the distant future, we'd do this stuff in a different way.”
I feel that’s why you see numerous repeat founders. However on the similar time, there’s simply numerous issues that you could’t know till you expertise it. A few of it's simply round intestine feeling. Individuals can ask me, “When are you aware that one thing is working or not?” and you'll speak about main indicators and lagging indicators and issues like conversion and adoption. However generally, as a rule, it simply feels prefer it’s working, every part’s clicking, each incremental factor will get incrementally simpler. Lots of occasions, it’s simply the intestine feeling of every part coming collectively, or conversely, every part simply grinding to a halt or feeling prefer it’s tougher than it needs to be.
I don’t know that however for going via this, I may have informed myself 5, six years in the past, “Hey, listed here are the issues that that it's best to do,” aside from, “Give attention to getting the folks proper,” as a result of that could be a no-regrets transfer in any state of affairs.
The place do you go for assist when you’re caught on one thing? You’ve talked about that you've this community of founders of similar-sized corporations. Do you've gotten mentors, different teams, are you a e book reader? The place are you going to get that perception that you have to decide extra clear?
I'm a e book reader and publication reader and simply typically simply studying every part I can on-line about constructing, scaling an organization. A very powerful factor, I feel, is to have a community of friends who've additionally seen the film that you simply’re in, or at the very least is slightly bit additional alongside simply to bounce concepts off or for even simply sanity examine, the way you’re approaching issues.
Having a peer community is useful. I don’t have a mentor per se. One panel I used to be on a few years in the past, this girl who’s a founder and CEO of an HR tech firm, she had a terrific metaphor, which I fairly preferred, which is that designating anyone a mentor is fairly disturbing as a result of that’s so much on the shoulders of 1 particular person.
As a substitute, what it's best to have is sort of like your advisory board, proper? Such as you’ve acquired anyone that you simply go to for X. You’ve acquired anyone who you possibly can bounce off for Y. And, for me, that’s simply been a way more useful assemble. I’ve acquired an enormous community of those who I can ping. Whether or not it’s a brilliant tactical query about, “Hey, how do I take into consideration X factor?” versus anyone I can exit to dinner or seize a espresso with and have a extra in-depth dialog. For me, that has been completely key.
I seen that you're a storyteller. You informed a narrative on The Moth and also you used to do stand-up comedy. Do you are feeling like that brings one other lens to the insurance coverage story, and notably the content material aspect of issues?
Oh, completely. And the storytelling and the artistic aspect has been essential for our early days of promoting content material technique. However much more tactically as a CEO, numerous what I've to do regularly is body a compelling story for folks—whether or not it’s perspective candidates, whether or not it’s traders, whether or not it’s getting everyone excited at all-hands conferences about this new product that we’re launching. A lot of what I've to do is being efficient storyteller to no matter viewers I’m talking to. In order that’s been a very, actually helpful ability for me.
Nicely, I’ve actually loved listening to some tales as we speak, and I hope a few of them resonate with our listeners. Thanks for making the time to talk with me as we speak.
Thanks for having me on.
Abstract
In hiring, Policygenius develops a 360-degree assessment of potential candidates, together with intensive vetting throughout earlier corporations together with direct reviews, co-workers and managers.
Early on, Policygenius noticed a chance to seize Google natural search as a channel. The funding in high-quality content material has resulted in a big moat between the corporate and its rivals.
Now that Policygenius has established itself as a number one insurtech and participant within the New York tech scene, recruiting and hiring expertise is simpler. Nevertheless, the corporate continues to be competing in opposition to different tech corporations for expertise—in different phrases, expertise is the evergreen exhausting factor about doing enterprise.
For extra steerage on scaling tradition:
And that’s a wrap on season two of the Accenture Insurance coverage Influencers podcast. Many due to all of our friends for making the time to share their tales: Scott Walchek from Trov, Caribou Honig from InsureTech Join, Ruth Foxe Blader from Anthemis, Shefi and Avi Ben-Hutta from Coverager and final however not least, Jennifer Fitzgerald from Policygenius. Thanks additionally to our listeners and readers—we couldn’t do it with out you.
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